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Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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bigro
 Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #1
Please explain

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Have you ever sat down one day and thought to yourself. "Gee, how can I improve my adventure. I sure am lost and don't know where to go or what to do. It would be handy if some people attempted to rectify my situation through an online bulletin board system."

If you have, this is the place for you. Please, have a seat and we will all try to help you help yourself.

RULES OF THIS THREAD:
  • Critiques and Advice is given on a request basis, if they don't ask, don't give.
  • If you request critique or advice, don't shun it.
  • A general "don't be a turd" but this was a given.
RESOURCES: Things will be linked here if I notice someone links a good resource for aspiring adventurers, or they themselves make a 5 star post that would be an aid to anyone
This thread will also serve as a general discussion thread on what makes an adventure good (or not) and other related topics as they turn up.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2016 07:46 AM by bigro.)
05-04-2016 07:37 AM
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Justice Watch
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #2
I was once an earthexe

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I've been thinking about going through and redrawing some scenes from Great Haven because some of the images are pretty atrocious. Should I bother lol?? Or should I leave it in its current, pure state?

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05-04-2016 07:41 AM
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Plaid
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #3
super gay

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Generally its best to ignore the temptation to redo or reboot creative projects, because it stalls their progress soooo much. /current comic in it's third incarnation


If you're going to do it then set out a schedule so updating is still viable? I mean you have no obligation to update but from experience i know that its very easy to fall into the trap of remaking the same scene over and over because its never good enough.

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05-04-2016 07:47 AM
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Dragon Fogel
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #4
The Goddamn Pacman

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The big thing to realize here is that redrawing is something of a trap.

What if, six months from now, you feel that your skills have improved and you can redo those panels even better? Do you do them again, or do you settle for what you can do now?

But there's no problem with redrawing in principle. There's also no problem, in principle, with leaving it as-is. The questions you want to ask are:
1) is redrawing worth my time?
2) is it important to me to leave a record of my progress as an artist over the course of this adventure, either for the sake of myself or for others?

These are ultimately personal questions, so I can't tell you "yes" or "no". I will say that I can't think of any panels I found unpleasant to look at in Great Haven, for whatever that's worth.

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05-04-2016 07:52 AM
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Justice Watch
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #5
I was once an earthexe

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I suppose that's a pretty fair and reasonable caution to take, then. Quality of art is almost always relative, anyhow; if something looks bad to you, chances are it still looks amazing to someone else. And there's almost no escaping being nitpicky on your own works.

I guess a good piece of advice is to try not to be too perfect. Perfectionism is the enemy of done, after all, in the words of jack_fractal. I heard one's view on one's own work is also reminiscent of their taste. That is, if you draw something, and are unsatisfied with it despite it being your best efforts, it means that you have a higher sense of taste than what your skill (which is still developing!) can do. And that just means you have something to work toward.

This is applicable to all kinds of artforms too, including writing and music.

...

But, as for the panels in particular that I want to redo, It's these fellows.
Spoiler :
[Image: 3CjOR6S.png]
[Image: Qma3BK3.png]

I dunno. Especially compared to the surrounding panels, the posing in these just seems unacceptable. And I wasn't really happy with it when I was drawing them either, but I still pushed it with the update because it was something!! And I had to draw something!! Oh well, we're past that. The fact that nothing stuck out in your head probably says a lot about what I was just saying above, though.

[Image: tN4CQnw.png][Image: 6miAxpY.png][Image: xrt4V73.png]
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(This post was last modified: 05-04-2016 08:07 AM by Justice Watch.)
05-04-2016 08:04 AM
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AgentBlue
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #6
that escalated quickly

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05-04-2016 08:57 AM
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bigro
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #7
Please explain

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@earthexe what exactly is wrong with them? I'm failing to see the need to redraw.
05-04-2016 10:55 AM
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btp
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #8
like a wild, sexy Dick Cheney

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I don't think the adventure needs to be redrawn - yet.

One of the things I really enjoy about this adventure format is that you get to clearly see how the artist had made strides in their work. They've developed and adapted, tried new styles and have found things that work for them!

The time for redrawing comes about when you want to switch mediums. We made an anthology of adventures to publish, that is the point where edits and corrections come in. If you're wanting to flush out a portfolio, then redrawing things (just like rewriting) begins to take precedence.

But not before then.

What I suggest is to start playing around with styles on your updates, appreciate the flaws in older versions and accept that you'll have flaws in newer panels too. Make new and different flaws, though! Mistakes can make things exciting.

I don't have a lot of art experience, but I think it is like listening to your own voice. It can be cringe inducing at times, but when you realize that the flaws jump out at you more than anyone else (I didn't think those panels needed work) and don't let the flaws overshadow the positives, then you can really start to appreciate what you have, and have fun with it!

For future, great haven updates though, I'll say it again, that my favorite panels have been the ones that show just how small the protagonist is. I would suggest more shots from other characrer's persepctives sprinkled in to contrast the typical, protagonist persepctive. For me, the times I felt the most nervous for the character wasn't when he was starving, or, threatened or at knifepoint, but when the art revealed how physically powerless he is compared to everyone else. In those moments, I caught a glimpse of feeling like a lost child. It makes sense that e would be afraid, would cling to a mothering character, that his race is despised for theiving because that is what you do when you feel powerless Ina world around you.

Not only that, but it makes the moments where he releases great power all the more impressive and rewarding. For a flash, we as readers regain a feeling of security. Those are the times when the art can make a small character look BIG.

So, there's some of my thoughts on that. Again, the only way you can really play around with it is by going forward. Wait for the movie pitch before redoing your older frames.

Spoiler :
Should we sticky this topic? It certainly goes in this subforum and it would be nice for authors to have a place to ask for help that isn't the fan-art thread.
05-04-2016 02:05 PM
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Papers
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #9
 

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I'm in favor of a stickifying

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05-04-2016 03:24 PM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #10
 

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http://eagle-time.com/showthread.php?tid=1561

In my adventure, people keep insisting that the doorway is closed. How do I make it clearer that there's only a doorframe with no door?

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
05-04-2016 05:01 PM
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Justice Watch
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #11
I was once an earthexe

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btp reading you talk about my adventure answer always makes me so happyy <3

Bigro, the main issues that bug me are the posing of the characters. It clashes with the rest of the update and their bodies are supposed to show more motion. It looks extremely awkward to me.

Also, this should definitely be stickied.

[Image: tN4CQnw.png][Image: 6miAxpY.png][Image: xrt4V73.png]
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05-04-2016 05:27 PM
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Immaterial
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #12
 

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(05-04-2016 05:01 PM)Farewell Wrote:  http://eagle-time.com/showthread.php?tid=1561

In my adventure, people keep insisting that the doorway is closed. How do I make it clearer that there's only a doorframe with no door?

Seems like people understand. Drawing an interior might help. Good luck!
05-04-2016 05:39 PM
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Wheat
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #13
 

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label it with words in the shadow. infrared did this all the time, by writing "bones" a bunch of times where a wall of bones should have been, or "shirt" where a shirt should have been.

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05-04-2016 07:01 PM
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Justice Watch
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #14
I was once an earthexe

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I think people thinking it was a solid door was a combination of bad luck and people spreading ideas through talking. I thought it was open until someone implicitly suggested it was closed.

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05-04-2016 07:07 PM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #15
 

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(05-04-2016 07:07 PM)earthexe Wrote:  I think people thinking it was a solid door was a combination of bad luck and people spreading ideas through talking. I thought it was open until someone implicitly suggested it was closed.

Sounds complicated!

Who is Infrared?

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2016 08:48 PM by Farewell.)
05-04-2016 08:47 PM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #16
The Westcoast Wizard of Toast

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I would appreciate a critique or two of my adventure thus so far. I really haven't gotten into the meat of the actual story so far, so I'm not worried much about the content itself, rather more if it's too dense or any writing issues I may be engaging in. I know it doesn't really conform to the typical adventure quirks/norms/traditions.

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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05-05-2016 09:27 AM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #17
 

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http://eagle-time.com/showthread.php?tid=1561&page=2

I tried to make a post telling people to stop making suggestions until the next update but it didn't work. What did I do wrong?

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
05-06-2016 06:16 PM
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Justice Watch
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #18
I was once an earthexe

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Well, generally and historically, people are just going to make suggestions whenever for whatever reason. So you can't really expect people to stop.

Additionally, you aren't really required to take every damn suggestion either. So if you're worried about having to do everything everybody says, well... you don't have to! Take only the ones you like, and go ahead and ignore the ones you dont like, including ones that would mess up the update that you've already started working on. It's your story after all~!

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05-06-2016 07:04 PM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #19
 

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(05-06-2016 07:04 PM)earthexe Wrote:  Well, generally and historically, people are just going to make suggestions whenever for whatever reason. So you can't really expect people to stop.

:(

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
05-06-2016 07:08 PM
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OrangeAipom
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #20
he/him

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If you wanna be tough, be respected, you need to put you announcement in big words. If it's good enough for ckret2, it's good enough for you.

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05-06-2016 07:15 PM
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Reyweld
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #21
zip

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Didn't it not work for ckret2? And that's why Be the Seadweller Lowblood ended(?)

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(03-02-2015 02:07 AM)Papers Wrote:  i don't know what i expected from reyweld's new hawkspace thread
(06-02-2016 04:16 AM)Schazer Wrote:  Tokyo could kick your scrawny ass

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05-06-2016 07:27 PM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #22
 

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I don't really get what you mean. Be the sea dweller lowblood didn't follow the canon of Homestuck closely enough. For some reason they decided to name the Sufferer Jesus instead of Kankri. It was confusing.

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
05-06-2016 07:27 PM
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Papers
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #23
 

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Jesus is five letters long

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05-06-2016 07:30 PM
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Farewell
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #24
 

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It really doesn't make sense.

did you know that i'm really just an excuse to make the adventure look amateur and bad??? because that's not true it's just that i forgot the whole point of doing this. - orangeaipom
05-06-2016 07:31 PM
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Papers
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #25
 

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Forum adventures tip: ASSETRY

if AND ONLY IF your adventure would work in this style, make assets either on separate layers (bitmap) or as symbols (flash; really fuckin useful) so that you're able to do some updates, if not all of them, a tad bit faster. It's not really that you need to make updates faster, but if in your mind an update will be easy or quick to do (man I hope I don't have to draw legs today) you might feel less unmotivated.

This isn't to discredit styles that redraw in each panel either. Honestly I think both style styles have appeal. Just, IF your style allows it, maybe give it a try for motivation

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05-06-2016 07:34 PM
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