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Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Solekii
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #76
 

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The way I see it, forum adventures are a collaborative process. I actually enjoy them more than webcomics sometimes because the user input is there. Forum adventures aren't so much about the story as they are about the journey. The world they take place in and the characters involved become rapidly more important than the story itself. They have a lot of potential, I think most people just aren't aware they exist. What? A comic I can suggest stuff to? Egads!

It brings the author so much closer to the audience because they're relying on them to push the ideas forward. And sure, a lot of bullshit happens, but that's the fun of it. It really tests an author's ability to be loose with their ideas (and to remember their cannon) and to not focus so much on the plot as they do on the development of the characters (or not, I mean you could always just ignore arcs and have that be fun too). Forum adventures are loose enough that they allow for the suspension of disbelief to be pushed a bit further, since the audience is meant to take the rules, apply them, and suggest based on what they know.

What's better than one mind? How about a whole bunch of minds all working together to push something forward and see where it goes. Like btp said, it's a game. But it's a game where even the creator doesn't know everything and I kind of like that form of spontaneity, it's like a storyboard driven TV show, or improv acting. The fun is in not knowing what comes next. You have a loose outline, then you hit play.

Or you can use them just to dick around and have some fun. Like I said, it's a loose genre, but with lots of potential.

And (bringing this back around town now) the mirror helps people who want to catch up on a popular adventure actually get to the point where they can suggest stuff too, or if they prefer to stay on the sidelines and watch it happen from a safe spot.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2016 02:01 AM by Solekii.)
05-12-2016 01:54 AM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #77
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(05-12-2016 01:54 AM)Solekii Wrote:  The way I see it, forum adventures are a collaborative process. I actually enjoy them more than webcomics sometimes because the user input is there. Forum adventures aren't so much about the story as they are about the journey. The world they take place in and the characters involved become rapidly more important than the story itself. They have a lot of potential, I think most people just aren't aware they exist. What? A comic I can suggest stuff to? Egads!

It brings the author so much closer to the audience because they're relying on them to push the ideas forward. And sure, a lot of bullshit happens, but that's the fun of it. It really tests an author's ability to be loose with their ideas (and to remember their cannon) and to not focus so much on the plot as they do on the development of the characters (or not, I mean you could always just ignore arcs and have that be fun too). Forum adventures are loose enough that they allow for the suspension of disbelief to be pushed a bit further, since the audience is meant to take the rules, apply them, and suggest based on what they know.

What's better than one mind? How about a whole bunch of minds all working together to push something forward and see where it goes. Like btp said, it's a game. But it's a game where even the creator doesn't know everything and I kind of like that form of spontaneity, it's like a storyboard driven TV show, or improv acting. The fun is in not knowing what comes next. You have a loose outline, then you hit play.

Or you can use them just to dick around and have some fun. Like I said, it's a loose genre, but with lots of potential.

And (bringing this back around town now) the mirror helps people who want to catch up on a popular adventure actually get to the point where they can suggest stuff too, or if they prefer to stay on the sidelines and watch it happen from a safe spot.

I think this is really well put. I dont have anything to add, but it made me reconsider a little of how I thought about adventures.

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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05-12-2016 04:59 AM
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SleepingOrange
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #78
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(05-12-2016 01:22 AM)OrangeAipom Wrote:  
(05-11-2016 09:57 PM)btp Wrote:  A carefully thought out and edited work, or a work slapped together with reader suggestions on an update by update schedule?
but a forum adventure is not carefully thought out. pretending it is such as fraud.

That's a little combative and, I think, pretty inaccurate. There were and are lots of works that are hugely preplanned, sometimes to the point that readers get frustrated at the "railroading". It's not the fashion here on ET, but I have my doubts there aren't any currently running (or even since-abandoned) works that had a lot of thought and editing put into them. I mean, Fortuna still functionally acts as a forum adventure, but there's a lot of concept artwork, worldbuilding (or worldbuilding synthesis), overarching plot, and design and polish that go on behind the scenes, even though it's still (I think? I haven't been part of the Fortuna community in many an age) partially-to-largely extemporaneously created.

As for the overall question of forum versus mirror, my own preference is for the forum. It's not hard except in the most egregious outliers to find the actual updates if I don't feel like reading feedback and suggestions, but the option to read them exists if I do. Also, I don't like having to go to different sites to read them, because I am a lazy curmudgeon.

05-12-2016 10:37 PM
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OrangeAipom
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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worldbuilding and railroading aren't even related topics

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05-12-2016 10:44 PM
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SleepingOrange
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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I'd say those things are all under the heading of "carefully thought out" which is specifically what you said

What concepts are related to your point then?

05-12-2016 10:45 PM
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OrangeAipom
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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i don't know... sorry. i guess you're right and i'm jsut kinda upset that other people can do things on their own

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05-12-2016 11:31 PM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #82
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(05-05-2016 09:27 AM)Colby Wrote:  I would appreciate a critique or two of my adventure thus so far. I really haven't gotten into the meat of the actual story so far, so I'm not worried much about the content itself, rather more if it's too dense or any writing issues I may be engaging in. I know it doesn't really conform to the typical adventure quirks/norms/traditions.

im just gonna repost this cause nobody responded to it the first time and im still curious what people think. im getting a little more worried about the content issue because I feel like i should have just jumped into the aforementioned "meat" sooner, and im still not there yet. Not even really sure how to get there at this point.

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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(This post was last modified: 05-15-2016 06:41 AM by Colby.)
05-15-2016 06:40 AM
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Papers
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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I haven't actually had a chance to catch up on your adventure. It's on my list of shit to do after my homework.

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(This post was last modified: 05-15-2016 06:46 AM by Papers.)
05-15-2016 06:46 AM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #84
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(05-15-2016 06:46 AM)Papers Wrote:  I haven't actually had a chance to catch up on your adventure. It's on my list of shit to do after my homework.

it is dense. it takes up 24 pages single spaced in a google doc

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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05-15-2016 08:15 AM
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OrangeAipom
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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I like it. Feels like a real children's paperback book.

I can't even say it's weirder because kid's sci-first gets weird.

The hardest part to read was in the beginning about Sidhas. Trying to parse what's going on in that prologue when the perspective changes immediately after doesn't feel good.

I'm rereading the prologue right now and I don't remember any of it. I guess it feels more... cinematic than the rest?

So now the perspective switched to the Blackhawk copilot's perspective and Sidhas is being described as a creature. It feels wrong

Hrm... I guess what I mean to say that the beginning sets up a tone and that makes for a different first impression.

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(This post was last modified: 05-15-2016 05:06 PM by OrangeAipom.)
05-15-2016 04:47 PM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Wow thanks! It will become more apparent in the future that Im basically trying to recreate a specific genre of children's fiction (maybe even parody/pay homage to a certain series) and I cant wait till i get to that point!

The Sidhas prologue is probably my favorite part, but it could use some editing. The perspective changes and the descriptions used are supposed to highlight some perceptual differences between the characters and the realization that the "creature" that is being hunted and the boy who is running are one in the same, but i think i could build that better if i go back over it. As for the tone that feels "wrong"... I like to think that your reaction is what i was intentionally trying to achieve! I hope to link that tone back into the story in the future, but it really is a set up for something way down the road.

Thanks again for the feedback

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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(This post was last modified: 05-16-2016 07:08 AM by Colby.)
05-16-2016 07:06 AM
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KittenEater
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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goin 2 bed but if anyone has any critique for tossaway i'd like to hear it
also i guess if anyone has questions about what the point of the adventure is, i can try to reveal a few small things?? idk i just wanna talk about my adventure i guess

A Different Realm--NoNoNightmare--The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea
TRICERATOPS ADVENTURE--Tossaway--Tiny Cat People
05-16-2016 07:24 AM
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Colby
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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(05-16-2016 07:24 AM)KittenEater Wrote:  goin 2 bed but if anyone has any critique for tossaway i'd like to hear it
also i guess if anyone has questions about what the point of the adventure is, i can try to reveal a few small things?? idk i just wanna talk about my adventure i guess

my critique is i like it and it's great.

the only thing that needs work is on not being so GOSH DAMN CUTE (jk never change it)

Hi there! I'd really appreciate it if you took some time to read my adventure Madeline Beaufort and the Moon Thief! Thanks!
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05-16-2016 07:41 AM
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KittenEater
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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hahaha, thanks!
okay the first critique i have for myself is that i need to update more than twice a month
there, i said it so nobody else can, now gimme stuff to work with >:y

A Different Realm--NoNoNightmare--The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea
TRICERATOPS ADVENTURE--Tossaway--Tiny Cat People
05-16-2016 04:38 PM
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OrangeAipom
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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(05-16-2016 07:06 AM)Colby Wrote:  Thanks again for the feedback

it's not a bad thing, i say, but maybe that's why it's hard to get into. it's well worth the effort.

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05-16-2016 10:29 PM
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Schazer
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Kitet, to my understanding, Tossaway's partly a worldbuilding exercise for Paradise Tourism, the game you want to make in this same setting, yeah?

Tossaway currently lacks urgency, conflict, or danger. We've been told by a presumably-reliable guide that lingering outside the main cities is dangerous, but haven't actually experienced that for ourselves. Said main centres so far have been populated by honest, pleasant people.

As Jay pointed out in the most recent update, we don't really need anything. While this keeps our options very open for what we might do next (be that treasure-hunting or working or exploring) it also leaves me inclined to preface any suggestion with an "Well I guess we could..." We've got no pressing motivations beyond "find out what my deal is", and the readers already know the vague outlines of that from the first post (even if we're not up ins on the who and the why just yet.)

I was really struggling to find something to constructively critique about Tossaway, because the setting is great, the character designs are fantastic, and my main issue is definitely "more updates plz".

Hell, "conflict" isn't even completely necessary, particularly if this is groundwork for a game that is more about exploring/discovering than fighting/fixing. Breaking rules about narrative and storytelling is absolutely fine provided you're breaking them consciously, I guess?

/5c

peace to the unsung peace to the martyrs | i'm johnny rotten appleseed
clouds is shaky love | broke as hell but i got a bunch of ringtones
eyes blood red bruise aubergine | Sue took something now Sue doesn't sleep | saint average, day in the life of
woke up in the noon smelling doom and death | out the house, great outdoors
staying warm in arctic blizzard | that's my battle 'til I get inanimate | still up in the same clothes living like a gameshow
05-17-2016 12:58 AM
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KittenEater
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Yes, Schaz! That's entirely true.

And that's true also, that there's not any danger yet. I actually asked in the topic if "we should be a pacifist or not" as more of a way to decide if I should bother thinking up a fighting system at that point; I could have been more upfront about that, but the point is, I can't find a reason to fight anything yet without us walking into the wilderness.

The game (if it ever exists, hopefully) will have combat and conflict, though, it is more about exploring than "fixing", I think. The setting in general is more about dealing with what you've been dealt than it is about stopping an all-powerful evil, or anything like that, so I'm going in the same direction with this adventure, and since this is a worldbuilding exercise, I'm hoping to have us explore the cities more than the ruins... since the cities need to be built, too. That's not ruling out any dungeon exploration in the future, though!

i think there was another point i was going to make but i kinda forgot, but basically what i'm realizing from this critique is that I really need to think of something exciting for us to do when we get to Bonsai. I can't be relying on you guys to give our protag something to do, even if you're the ones giving them commands.

to be clear: thank you so much, that was p. helpful!

A Different Realm--NoNoNightmare--The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea
TRICERATOPS ADVENTURE--Tossaway--Tiny Cat People
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2016 01:43 AM by KittenEater.)
05-17-2016 01:39 AM
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Wheat
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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I like adventures that are drifty and where the conflict is about self-discovery and is vague more than I do ones that are about confronting the big clear bland and white evil force, though that's personal preference

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05-18-2016 08:37 PM
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Mayu_Zane
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Hi everyone. I ran a couple of adventures on the mspaforums before that forum went into a coma.

One was Art of Domination and the other was From the Sands.

I've decided I'm going to continue them here on Eagle-time. However, I am unsure as to how to go about making the first post on the forums here. The mspfanventures mirror doesn't have all of the pages of Art of Domination (last one on that site was in 2011, story kept going till 2016)

I do have both adventures backed up, but I'm not sure if anyone's going to like trudging through .rtf and .jpg files to get caught up.

What do you all think? Should I make a really long recap? Just dump the files into a dropbox? Make a version where every post is in image form, with the text and pics in a singular image file like a webcomic?

Art of Domination (Strategy/Adventure)

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06-11-2016 11:06 AM
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Bobert
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #95
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I'd say go with a recap. It'll refresh everyones memories.
06-11-2016 12:19 PM
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Schazer
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Welcome to the forums!

As I recall, Art of Domination's got a lot of strategy-heavy discussion between readers between updates, so even if you've got "used" suggestions backed up there's a lot of content lost. Sounds like letting returning readers have a backup so they don't go mad trying to half-remember something, and a recap/current state of affairs for new readers would be the way to go? It may put your story's progression on hold until everything important's covered but it'd make a better starting point for anyone (like myself!) who wouldn't know where to start to make adventure suggestions.

peace to the unsung peace to the martyrs | i'm johnny rotten appleseed
clouds is shaky love | broke as hell but i got a bunch of ringtones
eyes blood red bruise aubergine | Sue took something now Sue doesn't sleep | saint average, day in the life of
woke up in the noon smelling doom and death | out the house, great outdoors
staying warm in arctic blizzard | that's my battle 'til I get inanimate | still up in the same clothes living like a gameshow
06-11-2016 12:41 PM
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Mayu_Zane
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Hm. Would need a few days to make the recap segment then.

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06-11-2016 02:06 PM
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Solekii
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #98
 

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I really want to make a mirror for Wayward (and boy I need one with my posting size), but I have no idea where to put it or how to even go about doing that. Any advice?
06-19-2016 03:14 AM
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Gimeurcookie
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Post: #99
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The mspafa site is honestly a great site to mirror stuff. It's easy to use and pretty fast with very little learning curve (It's pretty much just copy, paste, submit). It also works well for the forum adventure layout most adventures have. If you need help I can set it up and mirror your current pages for you so you can get the general gist of how it works.

At the moment I can't remember any other sites that have support for a more non traditional comic layout, just ones that support traditional comics or webcomics where all of the text is inside the panel.

Edit: Forgot to say that mirroring a ton of pages is also no issue on that site, other then it may take you awhile unless you know a few tricks as it has no mass submission feature. [Fortuna] for instance has like 5000 pages at the moment.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2016 10:31 PM by Gimeurcookie.)
06-20-2016 10:29 PM
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Solekii
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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I was considering that site, it's easy enough to navigate. I don't think mine deviates too much from the usual forum adventure layout... but some help might be nice. I tried looking but I don't think there even are any other sites with a mirror like that?
06-21-2016 04:17 AM
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