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Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Schazer
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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@GT: There's no explicit rules against crass humor or people having sex/doing NSFW things in forum adventures. If you feel the content would get someone in trouble if they loaded it at work, tag the thread NSFW.

I don't know what /qst/'s culture is like, but just covering my bases: Any subject matter that you can reasonably expect to be upsetting for people (sexual assault, graphically depicted gore, racist/homophobic/sexist/transphobic/ableist/etc themes) should be handled respectfully and thoughtfully if present. If any of the above were in the adventure as a punchline or for the simple sake of edginess, your adventure likely isn't a good fit or welcome addition to this forum.

Having said that: if you want to carry on your adventure here, you're free to do so provided existing themes/characters/plotlines don't run into the above problems. If you think the existing archive doesn't really belong on ET but want to use this place going forward, you can always summarise for new readers, make an offsite mirror and give due warning to people who want to peruse it.
08-16-2016, 07:01 AM
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GuardianTempest
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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Thanks for the swift reply, I figured it would take at least a few hours.

I'll see what I can do, I think I'm confident that I haven't had those problems yet. One of the things I'm worried about is that people might not give me a chance when they learn that the protagonist is a hermaphrodite.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2016, 10:20 AM by GuardianTempest.)
08-16-2016, 08:41 AM
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Solekii
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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(08-16-2016, 06:50 AM)a52 Wrote:
(07-31-2016, 02:38 AM)Solekii Wrote: S...so...um.... I always get too nervous to ask but I know it's good to know...

Am I doing okay? Y'know. On Wayward? I know I often take too many suggestions and my posts are super long but I'm working on picking and choosing a little more

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

First impressions (recorded while reading):
-The art style is very pretty. Not my style, but very well done all the same.
-I'm a bit unsure about the whole game thing. A lot of forum adventures start out with a video game theme, but a lot of them tend to either 1. immediately forget about it after the first update or 2. shoehorn it in places it doesn't belong. The only non-puzzle-based adventure I've seen do it well is Fortuna. Obviously it's a bit late to change and I'm writing this before I finish reading, but be careful with it.
-Nice use of simple animation. (Fade in/out, guy sleeping)
-"Object" is misspelled on page 18.
-This may be on purpose, in order to enhance the game feeling, but the text in the boxes isn't as enjoyable to read as the plain text. The game text just doesn't feel as... genuine.
-Ease up on the !. The more you use it, the less effective it becomes.
-That art is really cute. My initial instinct was that I would dislike this, for the same reason I dislike UT and SU, but that face on page 34 is too much for even me.
-Citrus is too friendly, it irks me
-Oh good, something horrible's happeni--and it immediately goes into thinking about his sister.
-Rock is mispelled 79, unsure if intentional
-This is way too fucking sappy
-She... is not really his sister, is she.

Okay, I have to stop there because I really need to sleep.

Review:

I don't think that having long updates is an issue, especially if you read on the mirror like I did. I think what is more important is to keep the plot moving. If you are doing long updates with lots of suggestions, you may have to even add plot in between the suggestions, or perhaps have fewer panels per command.

The art is very good. While I might not like it myself, it's very well done, easy to look at, and shows a real understanding of artistic... stuff. (I'm tired okay)

What I read so far is very good. It's not the sort of thing I would usually read, I am generally a lot less interested in these sorts of cutesy-type adventures. Even so, I enjoyed what I read. Make sure to keep the plot moving along, it stagnates a bit in spots (hugging stuffed animals, picking up junk, etc). Lastly, be careful with the game thing. Make sure to make it part of your plot, and not just a gimmick.

Good job so far though!

edit: looks like I stopped one page before something interesting happened. (94)
I might write some more later, in that case. right now I really need to sleep.

I was actually worried it stayed too cute too long and that I'd lose my intention. That being that it looks cute and completely harmless on first impression. (Man I'm never gonna forget about the 'too cute' thing now) This art style, I will admit, is far cuter than my usual style, and that I did that on purpose. I really hope it isn't obnoxiously so.

Just...haven't gotten to the good parts yet. I feel like my pacing is too slow but I have a lot to do sometimes and picking up the pace is hard... I have a lot to do and often wind up having to complete an update in a day to keep it going and often... it means sacrificing something I've written. Writing is fast, but drawing it takes much longer, even if I normally draw quickly.

If the text boxes are distracting I can get rid of them. I guess I thought it would be a neat change. But if it's too hard to read or too annoying to look at I can stop. The other use for them would be to tell the difference between 'you' the character and "You" the player.

The video game thing is definitely too late to change. It's very ingrained into the plot and always was. I'm just very worried about not getting anywhere and boring people and if I should start over or drastically change something....


edit: Now that I think about it I REALLY should have introduced a certain character much earlier to balance out Mai and Citrus in terms of 'niceness'. It was the intention in the beginning but forum adventures never go where you expect, eh?

If the text boxes need to be replaced I may do a slight re-write if I don't have to just start over... I'm not sure. I worry I'm too slow and that my pacing is too late to fix, as are other elements.

I guess because I have other ideas I worry I may be stagnating. I'm concerned this one is too complicated and slow right now....I'm more curious if the issues with it outweigh the good. I have some other ideas I want to do, but two hand drawn adventures updating regularly is too much to handle. And I like the idea of wayward still. I'm just concerned I'm not executing it properly and if I should keep going like this or change my approach. To do something else would require putting this one on hiatus or an irregular schedual. But I really don't like the idea of stopping when I've gotten so far.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2016, 04:15 PM by Solekii.)
08-16-2016, 02:31 PM
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a52
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
the one who patented nonsense

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Don't stop! It's good so far! Most of the things I wrote were just advice if you do another adventure, or for later updates, and you even fixed some of them. The textboxes, for example. Initially I was a bit worried about them, but now that I've gotten further in, I've gotten more used to them, and I even think that they're an important part of the story.

From personal experience, the worst thing you can do to an adventure is try to start it over. It doesn't work. Ever. Especially since what you have so far is already so good, I would just focus on keeping things moving in later updates. Don't worry about the older stuff.
08-16-2016, 04:29 PM
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Solekii
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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Yeah so I've heard. I guess I'm just a bit of a perfectionist and that I was already worried about a few of those things. Especially the writing, which is incredibly annoying to edit, I'll admit. (Partly why I started a little text adventure to practice because I feel like my writing has gotten lackluster without practice)

I guess I'm just a little worried it isn't turning out how I'd like. But I get that that's sorta the game with this stuff. I know it's fixable in the future but it's hard to ignore the start, yknow?

I think it's time to get the ball rolling then. I'll give it a go and keep going, I suppose.

But I really want to know about nitpicks and errors and other such critiques so I can fix them now rather than let it get worse or go unnoticed.

Edit: Also worried, again, that the 'cutesy adventure' went on too damn long. At what point is misdirection just 'dragging on'. aye. I guess once I start thinking about it I can't stop.

Edit again: it is good advice, though. I think I worry a lot when I shouldn't...
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016, 07:19 AM by Solekii.)
08-16-2016, 04:43 PM
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Papers
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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08-16-2016, 07:21 PM
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Plaid
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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(08-16-2016, 08:41 AM)GuardianTempest Wrote: One of the things I'm worried about is that people might not give me a chance when they learn that the protagonist is a hermaphrodite.


There are several reasons as to why people wouldn't respond well to that, and i'm willing to bet a large deal of money that its not the same reasons people would have a problem on 4chan

For starters you should probably do some baseline research into queer terminology

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08-16-2016, 08:56 PM
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GuardianTempest
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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As my fanventure test run on 4chan is slowly approaching its climax, I'm starting to get anxious about running it here "for realsies". Even though the story could use some sanitizing (obviously), I grew very attached to how it played out. I don't know if I want to do it all over again, risk derailing the story and killing off a potential ally. On the other hand I don't want to recreate the story 1:1, obviously certain scenes could be rehashed or expanded upon. Is there a possible compromise?
09-22-2016, 07:27 AM
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tronn
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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Run the story here as a remake, no reason to fret about running for realsies - like, what's the worst that could happen really. You already have some experience from 4chan, and even though /qst/ is a different environment the same basic storytelling skills carry over here. If you want feedback on your /qst/ run please link to it!

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09-22-2016, 07:54 AM
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GuardianTempest
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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(09-22-2016, 07:54 AM)tronn Wrote: If you want feedback on your /qst/ run please link to it!
While I would be very eager to talk about it, I think I'll wait for the time being. Plus it's literally my first foray into interactive fiction so there's a lot of glaring mistakes.

Quote:Run the story here as a remake, no reason to fret about running for realsies
But I digress, what do you mean by that? Keep the story as a remake? I suppose I can do that. However I do intend to fully allow commands once I've reached a certain point in the story since I would have all the elements I need by then.
09-22-2016, 02:30 PM
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tronn
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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I meant take the same basic idea and reuse the characters you developed, but better this time. Run it from the start once more, allowing commands but using what you learned the first time, what works and what doesn't and so on.

B.M.A.
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09-22-2016, 06:41 PM
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GuardianTempest
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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I see but how would that help with my concerns about the plot? I'll be honest, I want certain things to happen because otherwise an extreme deviation would result in a lot of premature tragedies.
09-22-2016, 11:10 PM
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Dragon Fogel
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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You're not required to make any particular thing happen.

You have a choice here.

You can say to yourself that, as the author, that there are particular things you do or don't want to happen, and you set the plot up so that they work out that way. Sometimes this might require heavy railroading; it's your responsibility to decide how heavy a hand you use here.

Or, you can accept that the suggestions you get may result in a different outcome if you just let them flow without much authorial interference, and you write what they lead you to. The key here is to make the stakes clear to the readers, and they'll take that into account when suggesting.

The important thing here is, you have as much control over the story as you want to take. What matters is deciding how much control you want to have, and accepting the consequences of that decision.
09-22-2016, 11:23 PM
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a52
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
the one who patented nonsense

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I've had this idea for a story fermenting in my head for over a year now, and I really want to write it as a forum adventure. I've got all the characters I want to use, the setting, the theme/feel of the story, the beginning, end, even the middle, all fleshed out. But I just can't connect it into a plot?

Somehow I just can't figure out the goals and motivation of the main character. I know why he got himself into this situation, but I don't know how he's going to get himself out, or why he does what he'll do afterwards. Not only does this lack of motivation make it really hard to have a cohesive plot, having a clear goal to work towards every update is one of the most important parts of a forum adventure. The lack of a clear goal/way to measure progress is what made this adventure fail the first time I ran it.


Does anybody have any advice? Is this something that you can give advice about, without knowing more of the story?

edit: Actually, I think I might just put this one on the shelf for a bit. In the time since I first thought of it, it's only grown more formidable, and my need to make it perfect has only grown worse. I'll probably save it for a time when I'm more equipped to handle it/possibly completely rewrite it.

edit nullified due to fogel's sage wisdom
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2016, 04:12 AM by a52.)
10-04-2016, 03:48 AM
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Dragon Fogel
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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The easiest place to start is to look at what you already have. Maybe you don't need to come up with new ideas - you might be able to rearrange the ideas you already have.

For instance, maybe you've got someone with a clear motivation who's mostly a background character. What if you made that character the protagonist, either by telling the story from their perspective, or putting them into the protagonist's place in the story? Or writing that character out and giving the protagonist some of their traits.

Or, if there's some particular event that you plan to happen... well, you could make it the protagonist's goal to cause that event to happen. Even if this isn't revealed in the adventure until the event actually happens, it can work as a guidepost for you when writing it.

Alternatively, just pick something, anything, as a motivation and then ask yourself if it works. If it doesn't, ask yourself why it doesn't work, and then maybe you'll have a better idea what you're looking for.
10-04-2016, 04:04 AM
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a52
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Thanks. I'll think about that. Actually, most other characters in the story do have clear motivations, one in particular, but due to plot reasons I don't think any of them would work as the main character.

I actually kind of like that last method. I never thought of just picking something. My character development has always been based off of what I already know about them, so doing something like that could be really helpful.
10-04-2016, 04:11 AM
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☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
i'm rad as hell, and i'm not gonna take it anymore

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sit down with a piece of paper and brainstorm all the stupidest ideas you can think of. maybe they're baby crazy. maybe they're gravy crazy
10-04-2016, 04:36 PM
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a52
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
the one who patented nonsense

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(10-04-2016, 04:36 PM)☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ Wrote: sit down with a piece of paper and brainstorm all the stupidest ideas you can think of. maybe they're baby crazy. maybe they're gravy crazy

fuck, i love gravy.
10-04-2016, 04:46 PM
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Mayu_Zane
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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To other fellow creators: How do you balance between waiting for responses/suggestions and getting to work on the next update? In my experience there were times when I was working on an update, then someone posts in the thread with a really good idea and I felt like I had to stop and modify to put that in because it feels like if I didn't I would have missed a damn good opportunity.
12-20-2016, 05:41 AM
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intrepidPioneer
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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(12-20-2016, 05:41 AM)Mayu_Zane Wrote: To other fellow creators: How do you balance between waiting for responses/suggestions and getting to work on the next update? In my experience there were times when I was working on an update, then someone posts in the thread with a really good idea and I felt like I had to stop and modify to put that in because it feels like if I didn't I would have missed a damn good opportunity.

in my experience, I just update with what feels right at the time. if i get suggestions i don't particularly like, i may spice it up and add more to it, or just wait for something else. After a day or 2 is enough time to wait for suggestions, afterwards its up to you.
(This post was last modified: 12-21-2016, 03:24 AM by intrepidPioneer.)
12-21-2016, 03:23 AM
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vie
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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This seemed like the best place to ask this, but if not lmk

So I’ve been running an adventure for quite a while, but the community I started it in has essentially dried up, and nobody really uses it anymore. Since not getting suggestions doesn’t really make an adventure happen, I’ve been looking for another place to run it, and this is the only online community I know of that really focuses on that! So here I am.

My question is, could I/how would I make the switch to running my adventure on Eagle Time? I can think of a few main ways to do so, and hope that someone could offer advice on the best or correct one to use.

1) Repost the original content. This would presumably be done on the MSPFA mirroring site, with the actual ET thread starting where the adventure left off. Alternatively I could try using some sort of nested-spoiler abomination to cram it into actual thread posts, but obviously that would be difficult to navigate and just not look very good and I only mention it here to catalog as many options as possible, even the bad ones.

2) Make a short recap. This would require more work but would get people up to speed without asking them to read an archive. If I did this I could repost the old stuff on the mirror site, too, but the idea would be that you wouldn’t actually have to read it. Right now I’m leaning towards this option.

3) Straight up just start over. Erasing some of the early art/writing/story decisions is pretty tempting, but on the other hand I’ve drawn almost 500 dang panels for the thing and am nervous about losing the bit of forward momentum I have.

If anyone has any advice or experience re: transferring an adventure between sites, and can weigh in on these options or suggest ones I didn’t think of, it would be greatly appreciated!
12-22-2016, 07:17 PM
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NonAnalogue
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
Stay fresh!

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I had to transfer my adventure too. I basically did options 1 and 2. I uploaded everything to the mirror, then put a short recap in the first post of the topic, then just went from there.

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12-22-2016, 08:14 PM
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Mayu_Zane
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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Question: Is it considered tacky if I mention my patreon page in my adventure threads?
12-23-2016, 11:36 AM
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Schazer
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.
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Several folks on this forum use Patreon and advertise it in their sigs and the like. It's a decent system for creative folks so I say go ahead.

I imagine it could be tacky if you're constantly repeatedly plugging it, but letting current readers know and editing in easy-to-find links for new readers seems to me quite reasonable.

People who actually use patreon should probably weigh in on "how much is too much" but in terms of general Eagle Time etiquette, I'm here to say it's a-ok
12-23-2016, 12:51 PM
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Mayu_Zane
 RE: Critique and Advice; the treadmill of adventuring.

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A'ight, thanks Schazer
12-23-2016, 01:16 PM
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