Tiny Chat People

Tiny Chat People
This is assuming that allying once alliance and then allying the other does not null our previous alliance and move us to the new one.
Yep, this is assuming that. It's making a lot of assumptions and that's one of its big failings as a plan.

Theoretically, if we're talking to Rein and having them agree on it, they would be able to tell us what misinformation we still hold.
As the poll is currently about 1:3 in favour of "War is hell" I'm now able to feel pretty happy to keep forwarding my suggestions in that manner without feeling like I am derailing other people's fun.

However, committing to not actually sending our cats to fight if we can at all avoid it puts is in a difficult position with regards to allies.

The more other people we tell about our actual plan the less likely it is to succeed, but if we don't tell people our intentions and ally with them then they will expect our cats' military aid, and quite probably disband our alliance once it becomes clear that this isn't happening. Also we'd be lying to them, which is another reason they wouldn't want to be our ally.
Maybe that would be good enough if it gave our cats time to talk to theirs and establish that they are not enemies, even after we are not allied? Might be worth thinking about.

We could also let some other people in on it. Potentially most of the players were already receptive to ending the game peacefully and the only thing in the way was the Grind/Rein conflict, but they would probably be less likely to be down with our plan which definitely falls at least close to "making your own victory condition", which everyone else surely knows Wax does not like.
Wax can't delete them from existence like he theoretically can us (by ejecting us from the game or just disallowing us from winning), but he can probably ban them, and that would suck.
Also it's not clear to me any more how much other players are treating this as a video game and not like, real? I might have to go back and see what the previous conversations were like.

People who are already down to not fight don't need our cats to persuade their cats to defect, but are also capable of telling other people what our plan is if we tell it to them. People such as Wax. Who, as I keep saying, really wouldn't be happy to hear it.

Wax doesn't have a choice other than to ally with us if that's what we go for, but he will definitely be attacking other players regardless of whether we are, which will make relations with them difficult when we are on his team. Our cats will be automatically regarded by enemies by every other player, which will make opening talks between them very hard, especially if Wax has already initiated hostilies.

The 1v1v3(v1?) plan is interesting but risky until we know if that's actually how things would work. Wax would also definitely disapprove of it because it's not really making a hard choice, and the other players probably are aware of this.

The "secret game ending alliance" plan is very funny but I think on a meta level, too easy to actually work (and given our rep wouldn't even necessarily be easy). At this point I think any plan that relies on our own personal charisma and diplomatic ability isn't very likely to succeed.
Maybe I'm overthinking it though?

Forming a 4v2 sounds like the most achievable option, but leaves it as others have said as a group of newbies vs Wax + Grind/Rein, and then we'd have to figure out on what terms we are doing this, because that team will be expecting us to actually help them unless we tell them what our real plan is, and would quite probably need our help because Wax knows what he is doing.

Potentially a 4v2 could bunker up somewhere (or perhaps, bunker up in two locations) so that they have a numbers advantage and then try to demoralise the other cats with propaganda but that would require all 3 of the other people on our alliance to be down with our plan, and require us 4 collectively to be good enough at making propaganda to convince those cats to defect.

I think cats made by Wax, the game's creator, Grind, inflexible god of Justice, and Rein, god of Control, are not going to be the easiest to persuade to give up... although that's going to continue be a problem regardless of what we do for as long as what we do isn't "fight them until they give in".
You know, if an abstract Defiance or Rebellion Type could turn other cats Rogue it would have been incredibly useful to have for this 'peace plan'.
(01-04-2018, 07:11 PM)Dark Lord Graham Wrote: »If it makes you feel better, I am asexual and have zero attraction to Grind in that sense. I used to be quite put off of the concept of it as well.

Sorry if i'm late to the pun but...

'Whatever grinds your gears, pal.'

Per my table for a newbie 'team triforce', pursuing alliances with Macaron and Marzu no matter what, prevents being left alone in a 2v2v2 (which would probably be a 2v4 in practise). From there, we can attempt to force an alliance win, attempt the 3v1v1v1, or shift into a 4v2. That those two are most likely to tolerate our antics AND accept our diplomatic envoys is a bonus.

Talking more about Alliances is kinda pointless until we contact Macaron for an update, explain ourselves and ask for permission to visit. We're all talking at rather than with each other when most of our ideas require the same actions.
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(01-12-2018, 05:48 PM)Jacquerel Wrote: »As the poll is currently about 1:3 in favour of "War is hell" I'm now able to feel pretty happy to keep forwarding my suggestions in that manner without feeling like I am derailing other people's fun.

To be fair, the wording in that poll seems pretty biased towards the peaceful option. I fear trying to be peaceful could get pretty ugly.

Playing nonviolently, how could you deal with wax or grind or rein creating the biggest scariest monsters and the most black hearted tcps they can think of, walking up to our doorstep and hurting our cats? Or even just walking an abstract type tcp past our pacifist cats and killing frog crimes, using the convenient nearby cutlery?
I mean, killing us isn't the objective of the game, if Wax wanted us dead he wouldn't need to get a cat to do it.
Yeah but abstract types can hurt gods, that's part of the game. There has to be a reason for them having that ability.

Heck, there's a murder knife for every god in this game. Why would it even be possible to make those if godkilling wasn't a thing?
If Wax wanted us to die he can just boot us from the game, he doesn't need to send an assassin.
Nobody, including Wax, has a motive to try to kill us. Unless we try to kill one of them, nobody will.
Everyone except Wax has told us how much they hate the only god-killer we are aware of, and I'm pretty sure Wax is also no fan.
We're trivial to kill, but there's no reason to assume anyone would try. To us, this is life and death, to them, they are playing a video game. The worst thing we are to the other gods is the waste of an afternoon.
This is a very silly avenue of discussion.
Since losing will kill us, killing us with a knife and beating us in the game are mechanically the same.
Wax would join our team cause it's the rules, even though he really doesn't want to. Booting us from the game would be cheating with his admin powers, telling a tcp to go use us as a pin cushion would not be.
(01-12-2018, 05:48 PM)Jacquerel Wrote: »Also it's not clear to me any more how much other players are treating this as a video game and not like, real? I might have to go back and see what the previous conversations were like.
Quote:MACARON: bc like, I wanna know what kinda stuff ur planning in-game.
I think this is the first outright reference to it as a game, but it's stated and affirmed many times that there are many TCP games being played by gods, multiple times; this is routine for them and life-or-death for us and given the benefits of winning, it's implied that all involved have an investment in the system and would therefore react... strongly to attempting to turn everyone's TCPS rogue. I can't think of how we can really disguise attempts at that kind of manipulation without spawning in that cone of silence people wanted or w/e and that itself would be a pretty big alarm bell.
Booting us from the game will only be "cheating" until he discovers we're still scheming to do something he explicitly has told us he doesn't want us to do.
Losing the game will probably mean we stop existing but this is something a lot of people have accepted is worth it, compared to winning and incarnating as a useless abusive monster of a god.

Players trying to directly harm or kill us just really isn't something that's going to happen. Maybe if Spit was in this game, but every player we have talked to has told us that they think Spit fucking sucks and so they are not going to emulate her by killing us in front of everyone else.
Being this ridiculously paranoid about things that have no chance of happening is part of what got us into some of the messes we got into.
Specifically you doing it too, if I remember correctly.
(01-13-2018, 12:22 AM)Jacquerel Wrote: »Specifically you doing it too, if I remember correctly.
Yup, I screwed up big time and won't be making any commands in this adventure going forward, don't worry about me messing things up again.

My main point wasn't that someone could kill us with the knife, it's that we don't really have any defense against violence.
We don't! Neither does anyone else!
We were told that spawning items into your personal space isn't really a thing people do most of the time.
This isn't a game about killing your co-players and there's no reason to think anyone in this game would decide to make it into one except us!

This is normal for everyone else. They're playing a video game. They all avowedly dislike the only murderer we know about. They aren't going to try to hurt us, except by making us lose the video game, which is really more a kind of circle of life, laws of nature sort of thing.
A defense against violence would be to make a monster that'll hurt the cats that are hurting yours, Macaron suggested she might do this if we broke her rules. This is not something we can do if we decide we're unwilling to hurt tcps.
You can protect yourself without enacting violence, we already have a forcefield around our planet in fact.
One unfortunate fact is that we simply don't know what other people are capable of creating or what the conventions of battle in this game are and we'll have to learn quickly on our feet but it's not an insurmountable problem.
I think it will be very hard to completely avoid harming anything at all, but we can and should make sure we are minimising avoidable harm, otherwise we shouldn't win the game anyway.
I guess what I was afraid of happening was a scenario where someone will be in the process of hurting the kitties and we would not stop them because doing so would require violence, and that would be painful to watch. But that's a really specific that probably won't happen. Being paranoid is probably the right word for what I was doing. Sorry about bringing up something that people already agreed on, this was an annoying thing of me to do.
I totally understand that worry and I think our cats being in danger is definitely going to happen eventually and we're going to have to figure out what the appropriate reaction to that is when we get there.
But as the breadth of options everyone else has is so vast I don't know how we can pre-plan very much about this one.

I can only speak for myself but I'm not so much "literally never do a violence" but, it's got to be justified you know?
And so far nothing has justified the conflict that is central to the game session we are in, which is the main dilemma we have.

We probably are going to want to fortify further in some way but first we need to figure out who is likely to be trying to attack us first (is it going to be fewer people than everyone bar Wax, for instance), and then maybe try to get some advance warning of what they are actually going to do.

Also worth remembering that our cats are individual sapient beings who will have their own ideas about how to protect themselves. If they're threatened I don't know in what direction they'll jump, and probably they won't all react the same way, but we should probably prepare them in some manner too (they, do still already have guns).
Oh well I can certainly get behind not being the aggressor. It would be quite unpleasant to give one of the cats a gun and tell it to shoot another cat.
Best way to learn this sorta stuff is to talk to Macaron, just sayin'. ;)
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figured out wane's colors, figured i'd pop this here for yall as a hold over until i can get the fancy refs done. while i do most of my refs on a scale for easy comparison, wax + wane are gonna have to deal with being way too big for that to be reasonable, and their heights will simply be listed instead.

ever since i made a murder furry universe, gay terrors have been manifesting in my home
wowzers I hope that's not blood
(01-13-2018, 05:13 AM)BananaPanda Wrote: »wowzers I hope that's not blood

im sorry to say i have bad news for you

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(i couldn't bear to keep it red because then it'd make literally any picture with them instantly gruesome to look at. also, it's metallic when i'm not being lazy and that'll look cool in that color)
ever since i made a murder furry universe, gay terrors have been manifesting in my home
I think we should talk to Rein soon. Of all the other gods they seem to have both the greatest ability and willingness to help us. Plus we could really use a better read on their personality. They seem to be interested in a peaceful resolution to this conflict, and may be willing to screen some of our plans for achieving that.
I think we should talk to Grind and apologize for implying that they're good at skateboarding.

Then we should call Rein and apologize about leaving our frog slime on their doorknob.

Then we call Marzu and apologize for not allowing them further character development.

Then we call Macaron and apologize for not coming over more often to enjoy a nice tea and biscuit.

Then we call Wax and apologize for deez, and when they ask about what deez is referring to we say "DEEZ NUTS" then hang up.

Then we call Kitet and apologize for being who we are as people.

Then we call Dominos and order a pizza and apologize in advance that we can only pay in pennies.

Then we call it a night because the game will be over at that point and our cats dead whilst we were on the telephone.